Debunking "Former Police Officer Paul Gillespie's" Claims About MMP

I received an email the other day that was full of un-truths about MMP and the Referendum coming up in Ontario on Oct. 10, 2007.

I agree that people should be informed about MMP – but with facts.

Paul begins the email with: “if you live in ontario you should read this carefully before you go to vote on the 10th oct and understand what it will mean to your tax dollar”
He seems to be implying that this vote will have a large impact on your tax dollars. And, in that he is correct.
With the MMP system, the governement will be more accountable in how it spends our tax dollars, and we will have a government that actually represents a majority of voters making decisions on how our money is spent, instead of having a government that only represents a minority of voters (as we have now), making these decicions.
But, Paul makes claims in the reverse of this, based on false information.

In this post, I go through his claims one by one, debunking each.

For an excellent resource on the facts, go to:
VoteForMMP.CA - FAQ

[And, for more information about MMP, see the links at the bottom of this post.]

Claim:
On October 10, 2007, as part of the next Provincial election, the people of Ontario will be asked if they want to replace the current electoral system. In essence, they will be asked if they want to shift the power from
the people of Ontario (local voters and ridings) to the politicians at Queens Park.

Fact:
There will be a shift in power. More power will be shifted to the people of Ontario and away from a few politicians. MMP will give more power to the people so that every vote counts, as opposed to only the votes for the winning candidates.
Also, currently, candidates are nominated at riding association meetings. List or Regional candidates will also be chosen by a similarly democratic process. Opponents of MMP would have you believe that the List or Region candidates would be appointed by party leaders. This is not true. [Update: Now, all 4 major parties (Liberals, Conservatives, NDP and Green) have agreed that they will use transparent and democratic methods to choose the list candidates - they will not be appointed. The Citizen's Assembly, when they put forth their original recommendations, also recommended that List candidates be chosen in a democratic and open fashion.]


Claim:
There has been no education on this referendum and its timing, coinciding with the October 10 Ontario election, may allow for an easy pass by sheer overshadowing.

Fact:
The referendum has been in the news off and on since the last provincial election. The problem of of education actually works against MMP getting voted in as those who know the least about it tend to say they will vote against it, while those who know the most about it are those who say they will vote for it. The fact that the 2 largest parties, the Liberals and Conservatives, are doing little to promote education about this, only hinders the process and all but ensures that MMP will not pass in the Referendum.


Paul contintues with: What is being proposed and how does it impact all of us?

Claim:
Decrease the current number of ELECTED MPPs from 103 to 90.

Fact:
The number of elected MPPs will increase to 129 from 103. You will elect a local representative and a regional representative of the party you support, thus increasing your individual representation. [Correction - from 107 seats to 129 - there are currently 4 vacant seats of the 107 seats.]


Claim:
Incorporate a new NON-ELECTED number of MPPS

Fact:
There will be no non-elected MPPs, but more elected MPPs. And, your vote will count, whether the local candidate you support wins or not as the number of seats in parliament will be proportional to the number of votes cast for a party.


Claim:
Enlarge the number of MPPS to 129.

Fact:
The number of MPPs will increase to 129. However, this is a good thing. Currently, Ontario has the worst representative-to-voter ratio in Canada – which means a less representative government. More MPPs means that you will get better individual representation in parliament.


Claim:
90 MPPs will be Elected by us the people

Fact:
129 MPPs will be elected by us the people


Claim:
39 MPPs to be Selected or Appointed by the politicians.

Fact:
Zero MPPs will be selected or appointed by the politicians. This is a myth perpetrated by the anti-MPP people. List/Region MPPs will be chosen by democratic processes just like local candidates are chosen now.


Claim:
Not democratically elected and Party elites

Fact:
All 129 MPPs will be democratically elected. In fact, with proportional representation, and more MPPs representing people directly, and, the fact that there will be less chances for single parties to get majority support, the politicians/parties will be forced to work together more. This will result in the parties working more towards getting things done for you and less to working against each other.


Claim:
Decreased accessibility to government

Fact:
You will have increased accessibilty to government as you will have two representatives, not one.


Claim:
17 fewer local ridings and decreased accessibility

Fact:
There will be less local ridings, but this will be offset by an increase in party representatives. There will be 129 MPPs instead of 107. You will have access to 2 members, not 1 as now – a local representative and a party representative.


Claim:
Elected members will have local riding issues to manage

Fact:
Okay, I'm not sure what the problem is with this point. Currently, elected members have local riding issues to manage. And, with MMP the elected members will have local riding issues to manage too.


Claim:
Directly accountable to constituents

Fact:
Both local and list/regional MPPs will be directly accountable to constituents


Claim:
Appointed MPPs have no such responsibilities

Fact:
First, there will be no appointed MPPs. All will be democratically chosen and elected. Second, both local and list representatives will be accountable to you and be responsible for all issues, local and provincial.


Claim:
Brokerage Politics may make positive change more difficult

Fact:
Currently a lot of postive things don't get done for you and the province due to parties spending their time trying to make the other parties look bad and their own party look good in order to gain more votes in the next election. In a proportional government with no majority party, the parties will be forced to work together to get things done for people. In most MMP countries, this has worked well for a long time.


Claim:
Did you ask for this referendum and the associated costs?

Fact:
Yes, you did, by electing the Liberal party last election. This was one of their election promises. Oh, you say you didn't vote for the Liberals last election, and that the Liberals didn't get a majority of the vote? Well, MMP would have fixed that, so you would have had more say.
And, the cost of the referendum and the research leading up to it will be offset by the more accountable and responsible decisions made by the govenerment once MMP is in place.


Claim:
This proposed two-tier government system called "Mixed Member Proportional" MMP) is the government's solution to reduced voter turnout in the current electoral system. There is a risk that this referendum question will be overshadowed by the debate of who will form the next provincial government and could result in the people giving up their historic power in the way we govern ourselves.

Fact:
MMP will not result in a two-tier government. It will result in 129 democratically elected MPPs, with the parties getting a number of seats proportional to the number of votes they get. Many people have stopped voting because the current system of FPTP (First Past The Post) results in their vote not counting. MMP will result in every vote counting. Contrary to the myth above, if we vote yes for MMP and it passes, we will be gaining power in the way we govern ourselves. Everyone's vote will count and each person will gain more representative power in parliament. The best policies have been passed when parties have been forced to work together. The worst policies have been passed when one party - with a majority of seats, but who got in with a minority of votes, made the decision for us.


Claim:
The government spent millions of our dollars on a Citizens Assembly on Electoral Reform. Purportedly, the members of the Citizens Assembly were chosen randomly but no one can establish which database or what information was used to determine such random participation, or history making participants.

Fact:
In 2005, the Ontario legislature established an all-party committee to study electoral systems. The committee made recommendations regarding the Citizens' Assembly and the referendum. In March 2006, the government filed a regulation providing for Elections Ontario to select one citizen at random from each of Ontario's 103 electoral districts to form the Citizens' Assembly.


Claim:
The people of Ontario did not ask for this referendum.

Fact:
This was a Liberal party election promise and the Liberals were elected. So, yes, the people of Ontario asked for this referendum.


Claims:
The people of Ontario want more accountability. They do not want paid MPPs that have no accountability: not to ridings or constituents or any other defined entity or channel. The people of Ontario want more transparency of their various tax dollars, at all levels of government. They want to eliminate misuse, abuse and squandering of their money and will not tolerate monies provided for apparent immoral means. Shifting the people's power will not help suppress scandals such as the most recent Cricket club affair. ($100,000 requested and $1,000,000 one million paid for no apparent benefit to the people of Ontario).

1.A more elite legislature
2.Reward for faithful service
3.Delivery of votes
4.Financial help
5.Decreased accessibility to politicians
6.Less Democracy

Facts:
Accountability:
With the current system, you have only one MPP accountable. With MMP, you will have more accountable to you.
Transparency of tax dollars and elimination of misuse, abuse and squandering of money, and use of money for apparent immoral means:
With MMP, parties will be forced to work with each other more, and be forced to get things done for you instead of wasting your money by wasting time playing political games and bashing the other parties.

Shifting Power:
MMP will shift more power into the voters hands. Currently, with FPTP, a single political party who, although only getting a minority of votes, gets a majority of seats – a minority party with majority power. With MMP, we will only have the majority of power in the hands of the majority.

Regarding the 6 points above:
MMP will give us
1.a more accountable and less elite government
2.representatives more responsible to the voters
3.a system where every vote will count – the number of seats a party gets in parliament will be directly proportional to the number of votes the party gets.
4.a government actually representing a majority of the people, resulting in better decisions being made regarding your money and services
5.greater accessibility to your government with more representatives representing you the individual
6.a real democratic system where the number of seats is proportional to the number of votes


Claim:
If people of Ontario are to make an informed decision, they must have the opportunity to hear more than one side of the debate on electoral change.

Fact:
Exactly. So why has the government done so little to inform the public about this issue? History has shown in Canada that by setting such a high goal of 60% voting Yes and not informing the public enough, it will result in the referendum failing, and the current system remaining. Polls have shown that the less people know about the new system the more likely they are to vote to keep the current system. And, alternately, the more people know about the new system, the more likely they are to vote for the new system. So, less full information from both sides, will only result in the vote for MMP failing. It is in the interest of the anti-MMP side to keep the people un-informed on the topic.
It is strange that The Toronto Star, generally known to be a Liberal Supporter, has been coming out with columns against MMP, while The National Post, generally know to be a Conservative Supporter, has Andrew Coyne writing in support of MMP. We know that the NDP and Green parties fully support MMP. As for the Liberals and Conservatives, they don't have official stances on the issue, but there are members of both parties for and against MMP.
More correct factual information about MMP is definitely needed. Many anti-MMP people compare what would happen with MMP in Ontario with what has happened in Italy and Israel. This is very misleading since these countries do not use MMP.


Claim:
Using our tax dollars to pay for 22 more politicians and their staff at Queens Park, and without any sense of what the additional 22 will be doing or to whom they will be accountable, suggests that the people of Ontario are weak, indecisive and need decisions made for them or are basically ignorant and will give up their power

Fact:
The additional MPPs will be representing the people who voted for them. They will be directly accountable to the people who voted for them – on local and provincial issues. Currently, MMPs represent constituents on local issues, and on provincial issues. This will not change. And the party or parties combined that make up the government will actually represent a majority of voters, not a minority.
With the current FPTP system, we often, as currently, have a party in power making decisions for the majority, who only represents a minority of the people. So, with our current system, we have others, who are not accountable to us and don't represent our vote or ideals, making decisions for us.


The MMP system will give us more accountabliltiy, and will result in better representation.

For more information on MMP visit these links:

Vote For MMP

Liberals 4 MMP

Conservatives For MMP

Driving The Porcelain Bus - posts about MMP and Proportional Representation

democraticSPACE - Canadian Politics - Electoral Reform

Progressive Bloggers